Did you know, that coaching conversations don’t have to take a lot of time? In fact, it can take just 10 minutes or less to resolve a situation.
In this episode, host Tim Reitsma and Lisa Martin—a Professional Certified Coach and founder of The Coach-Like Leader—have a powerful conversation about coaching and how a coaching mindset will bring impact to our organizations.
- We all have the capacity to lead in our own way, but it comes down to choosing to play that role. [5:01]
- One of the key pieces of being an effective leader is about looking inside and self-awareness. [6:10]
The leaders that I have found to be most effective are the people that are the most self-aware.Lisa Martin
- Lisa’s big picture vision is healthy, happy people and workplaces. And so to get there, you have to have workplaces that are supportive of people. For workplaces to be supportive of people, workplaces have to get the results they need to stay in business. So they go together. [7:22]
- From Lisa’s perspective, coaching really means that you practice curiosity, empathy, and listening. And the way in which you can do that to be successful and supportive of your people is to ask powerful questions, to practice mindful listening that leads to results. And Lisa calls that the coaching formula. It’s powerful questions plus mindful listening that lead to results. [9:14]
- A coach-like leader is someone that brings the spirit of coaching to their own personal, authentic leadership style. [9:57]
- Powerful questions are questions that help the other person look inside for their own answers. [11:22]
- Powerful questions start with the words What and How, not Why. [12:14]
- The Coach-Like Leader experience is designed to support people leaders to become everyday coaches. [17:07]
- Coaching does not have to take a lot of time. It can take 10 minutes or less to resolve a situation. [17:31]
- The times when coaching doesn’t make sense is when there’s significant consequences to the organization, either financially or reputationally if something isn’t dealt with immediately. [19:06]
When you become more coach-like as a leader, what you are doing is you’re helping those that you work with become more self-aware.Lisa Martin
- Holding your people capable of being able to do things does not mean you have to abdicate, but making sure that they have that capability and capacity to do the work that you’re giving them. [21:29]
When you help others be their best, then you bring out the best in yourself too.Lisa Martin
- When we make the choice to be a leader, we also make the choice to make hard decisions. [23:20]
- Mindful listening simply means to be present. [26:09]
- When you’re being more coach-like, you can use active listening in a way that really supports the conversation for the coachee so they get better results. [26:56]
- The coaching formula is powerful questions plus mindful listening that lead to results. [27:48]
- What we’re looking for when we’re having a coaching conversation is the powerful questions, the mindful listening, but having results (and action plan) at the end of the conversation. [28:13]
- We can bring culture change into our organizations by becoming a little more curious. [31:05]
A lot of the situations that we’re in right now worldwide would be better if we had more curiosity and more empathy.Lisa Martin
- When you practice curiosity and empathy in the workplace, you’re ultimately showing care for people. [33:07]
Meet Our Guest
After working in the business world for 25+ years and being a Professional Certified Coach for more than 20, Lisa has discovered the core skills required for effective leadership.
She’s managed teams, owned her own companies, been the youngest and only female partner/board member in a national firm and written 5 books on leadership. As an executive coach, she’s coached thousands of leaders across hundreds of organizations.
Lisa was an early adopter of coaching, helped spark the work-life balance movement in 2004, has designed and delivered hundreds of leadership development programs in-person and virtually, and released her first online course in 2014.
Now she’s created The Coach-Like Leader Experience™, a whole new style of blended learning to bring coaching fundamentals to more organizations across the globe.
To be a leader is to be able to be visionary, to see a road ahead, to be able to inspire others to want to join you, to take the path down that road ahead. And what that means is to be able to inspire action.Lisa Martin
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Related articles and podcasts:
- About the People Managing People podcast
- How To Be An Effective HR Leader?
- What Will It Take To Build A Better World Of Work?
- The Puzzle Of The Hybrid Workplace And How To Solve It
- Culture Change Is Necessary To Accomplish A Better World Of Work
Read the Transcript:
We’re trying out transcribing our podcasts using a software program. Please forgive any typos as the bot isn’t correct 100% of the time.
Lisa Martin: From my perspective, coaching really means you practice as a leader, you practice as a human being, you practice curiosity, empathy, and listening. And the way in which you can do that to be successful and supportive of your people is to ask powerful questions, to practice mindful listening that leads to results. And I call that the coaching formula, so it's powerful questions plus mindful listening that lead to results.
Tim Reitsma: Welcome to the People Managing People podcast. We're on a mission to build a better world of work and to help you create happy, healthy, and productive workplaces. I'm your host, Tim Reitsma!
My guest today, well, when I asked her, What does it mean to build a better world of work? She said, unscripted, happy, healthy workplaces. So right then, I knew this is gonna be a great conversation.
Today we talk about coaching. And I've got a question for you. Do you lead by telling people what to do? Find yourself asking questions that start with Why, and maybe get defensive answers? Or perhaps you're seeing disengagement within your team and aren't sure why. Or, maybe not even asking what the reason is.
Or perhaps you ask powerful questions, you're present while listening and seek results from your people in an impactful way.
Lisa Martin, a Professional Certified Coach with over 20 years experience and Founder of coachlikeleader.com, shares with us how a coaching mindset will impact the results of your team and your organization.
Did you know a coaching conversation could be short, like under 10 minutes short? So stay tuned to learn more.
Lisa Martin, thank you so much for giving your time to me today and spending some time with me and our listeners. Thank you for joining the People Managing People Podcast.
Lisa Martin: Oh, my pleasure. I'm excited for our conversation.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah. And I hope everyone who's listening is also excited. The topic is around coaching and coaching in the workplace coaching, leadership coaching.
We have a couple scripted questions. We don't know where we're gonna go, but it's around that mindset of coaching. And, you know, for me, I think it's, you know, we've talked about coaching for many years. We know it has immense benefits in our organizations, but yet we still, and I'm generalizing that collective, we still struggle with it.
And so that's where we're gonna get to today. But before we get into that, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what's top of mind for you these days?
Lisa Martin: Little bit about myself. Well, I've been in the coaching world for 20 plus years. I'm certified, what's called a Professional Certified Coach or the ICF, and that certification came in 2003.
So I've been really fortunate to have been able to work with thousands of people now in the coaching. Well, whether that's been one on one, or peer to peer, or in groups. And I have a real passion for how it can support people, but also support organizations and culture.
I live in North Vancouver. I have a son who actually works with me now, and I have a cat who acts like a toddler and I have to close the door to make sure she didn't come in today because she will. And she'll come in and she'll interrupt and you'll hear meowing. And my husband and I have been together for many years. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: Oh, I love that. Thanks for the intro. I'm intrigued about working with your son and how that mother son work relationship is and you know, maybe I'll ask you about that off cause I'm just really curious about that.
But before we get into our conversation about coaching and I think the next two questions for those who listen to the show, they are scripted. I'm very curious about these two things and so I'd love to get your perspective on it. First question, what does it mean to be a leader?
Lisa Martin: Yes. That's a big question and I'm going to do my very best to give you a limited answer to that. And I believe what it means to be a leader is to be able to be visionary, to see a road ahead, to be able to inspire others to wanna join you, to take the path down that road ahead. And what that means is to be able to inspire action.
But I, I think ultimately what being a leader is about is making the choice to do that work, Tim.
Tim Reitsma: I think you hit the nail on the head. It's making the choice to do that work. It's not just a fancy title. It's like, Oh, you're a manager, or you're a director or a VP or on the C-Suite. It's, there's work to be done. Just because you've been given the title doesn't mean that we know everything or anything.
Lisa Martin: Well, and to that point, to your point, you may not have been given the title per se, but you are still acting as a leader.
And I think that we all have the capacity to lead in our own way. But again, it comes down to choosing to play that role. Some people, that role may be given to them, but they haven't chosen it. And so that's gonna make a big difference in their effectiveness. The reverse situation is true too.
You may not have been given the title, but you are acting as a leader just by nature of the way that you are and the choices that you make. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah, I'm really fascinated topic of leadership when it's geared towards new leaders or new managers. And what I keep running into and some of the research I'm doing is the characteristics that every book talks about is just great characteristics to have in life.
And so when you think about empathy and compassion, you don't need to be a leader to have empathy and compassion. But you need to choose to have empathy and compassion. And so I, I love that. For those who are listening, if you're like, Oh, I'm striving for that leadership position. Well, maybe you are, you know, take a look inwards, you probably are already a leader.
Lisa Martin: Yeah. I think, that point that you're making about, about looking inside is understanding one of the key pieces of leadership I believe, or good leaders. Let's put it this way, or effective leaders. I think that's a better way to describe it. Effective leaders, is the self-awareness piece, and I think that's what you're leading to there, Tim, is the leaders that I have found to be most effective that I've either worked with or that I have studied are the people that are the most self-aware.
So they're really looking at and understanding, well, what are my strengths? Where are my areas for development? Where are my blind spots? And then have a willingness to improve around any of those areas. And sometimes improvement is making our strengths stronger. It's not always about shoring up weaknesses. It's about looking at what are those strengths that I have that I can improve even more so.
Tim Reitsma: I love that and I think it might lend itself to the next question. And our publication is centered around helping people build a better world of work. When you hear that phrase, build a better world of work, what comes to mind?
Lisa Martin: Excitement. I think because big picture vision is healthy, happy people and workplaces. And so to get there, you have to have workplaces that are supportive of people. And also for workplaces to be supportive of people, workplaces have to get the results they need, you know, to stay in business. So they go together.
Tim Reitsma: It's so interesting you say that, because this isn't scripted. We didn't preplan this. What we say in our publication is we are here to help you create happy, healthy, and productive workplaces. So when you said happy and healthy, I like, I don't think we can be more aligned on that and.
Lisa Martin: How can you have that? A healthy and happy workplace? I get that healthy and happy people part. Well, so from my perspective, it's that healthy and happy people help create that healthy, happy workplace. They are the foundation. They are the foundation for that.
A healthy, happy workplace also means that from a health perspective, and I think it's a Patrick Lencioni that talks a lot about, you know, the health of an organization. It's making sure your culture's there, it's making sure your policies and procedures are there that are healthy and support the organization the culture. And that's what, from the organizational side, how it works.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah. And what a fantastic lead into our conversation about coaching culture and how, you know, we talk about culture and there's so many people like Patrick Lencioni who does talk about, you know, some of the foundations of culture. You know, when it comes to coaching and we think about it in the context our workplace culture, what does that mean?
Or maybe let's even back that up a little bit. What is your definition of coaching? And then we'll talk about workplace, and then we'll talk about that coaching culture.
Lisa Martin: It's so funny you say that because that's what I was gonna do. So well wait a second, I think we need to go back and talk about what does coaching mean from my perspective.
From my perspective, coaching really means you practice as a leader, you practice as a human being, you practice curiosity, empathy, and listening. And the way in which you can do that to be successful and supportive of your people is to ask powerful questions, to practice mindful listening that leads to results. And I call that the coaching formula, so it's powerful questions plus mindful listening that lead to results.
So someone who is able to embody and embrace those traits is what I call a coach-like leader. And so, a coach-like leader is someone that really brings the spirit of coaching to their own personal, authentic leadership style.
So it's not changing who you are to become "a coach". What I'm looking at in the workplace is how you can take those fundamental coaching skills and apply them to your everyday leadership. So you become, what we're seeing out there right now is we're seeing a lot of really stress and overwhelmed people leaders, and we know many of the reasons that's happening, Tim. And we, I don't think we have to go into all that explanation. But what we see is when we help those people leaders become more they then are able to transform into impactful everyday coaches and that has a big impact.
So, so it has a big impact on their teams, and then spread out to other teams in the organization and then spread out to the culture as a whole. So you really see the coaching culture with coach-like leaders. And I hope that it answers the question that you are answering or asking me?
Tim Reitsma: Oh, fundamentally does. I think for our listeners who might be saying, Okay, it's great. I need to ask powerful questions and mindful listening. I've got the listening part down. But what is a powerful question?
Lisa Martin: Yeah, good question. That's a powerful question. And I'll tell you why it's a powerful question.
So I'll tell you why that's a powerful question. And powerful questions are questions that really help the other person look inside for their own answers. Powerful questions are phrased in a way that elic some internal impact for the person that is asked the question.
So it makes them think, in other words. It makes them think. Your question is making me think. The other thing about powerful and your question, a powerful question assumes that you're going into that asking of that powerful question that you're holding the person capable of being able to answer that question and to be able to dig deep inside themselves to bring that answer forth.
Now the other thing that was great about your question that made it powerful is you started the question with the word WHAT. And powerful questions start with the words what and how, not why. And there's a reason for that. When we ask a what or how question, it really opens up a possibility depth of response.
When we ask a why question, what it often does is shut the recipient of that question down. And there's brain science, neuroscience reasons behind that. And quite simply what happens is when you ask someone a Why question, in the brain, the amygdala freaks out.
It says, Danger danger. This is a threat. This is a threat to me. And because your amygdala can't discern between a why question and a saber-toothed tiger, this has been with us for a very long time. And so when we feel that sense of a threat or danger, we go into fight, flight, or freeze.
So what happens in an answering of questions for for the coachee is that they go, I'm gonna give maybe an excuse or a rationale, or I'm gonna be defensive when ask that question. And so what was great about your question is you asked a what and a how, not a why, and your question was open ended. So, in other words, I couldn't just answer with a yes or a no because when you ask a question that is closed ended, a yes and a no, that's the end of the conversation almost, right?
You've gotta then date a little harder as the person asking that question to really get some information and to get that person to open up.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah. Thanks for that explanation. I know it can put you on the spot there, but I think it's so, so important for us to even quickly unpack what a powerful question is.
And I love your answer to that. I think of so many scenarios in work and life where I've been asked a question, Why didn't you do that? Or why did you do it that way? It's like, Oh, shoot, now I need to go in into explanation mode. So I hope you got 20 minutes, because I'm gonna try and explain my rationale versus, you know, let's have a conversation about the, about this path that you chose get this project off the ground.
You know, what's worked well, what hasn't worked well?
Lisa Martin: Yeah you went right into defense, defensive mode, right? You're just like, Oh, now I have to explain myself. So, Dad feels like you're a kid again and you're having to say, Why are you late? Why didn't you go, come home on time?
Tim Reitsma: Yeah. Well, my five year old daughter, she came home from kindergarten and didn't eat her sandwich.
And my default was, Why didn't you eat your sandwich? And she said, Oh I was full. I already ate my cucumbers. And so then we, I reframed the question. I said, Well, what was going on at lunch? And she said, Oh, I just, everyone was done really quick and I wanted to get outside, and so I could go and play and, but don't worry, I'm going to eat my sandwich. I'll eat it right now.
And I said no, it's been sitting in your lunch bag all day. Like it's, you know, we don't need to be eating that. But so just even as we use that Why language in our, within our teams or even in our lives, just that practice of reframing that into a what and a how I think is important.
Lisa Martin: Yeah, it's huge. Like you can't underestimate the power of it. And the example that you just gave was very powerful too. Because what I heard in there is by you being able to reframe that question to your five year old child. What that did was, one, it didn't push her into some guilt or shame feelings, number one.
Number two, you learn so much more about her. And number three, it strengthened your relationship. And those things are applicable everywhere in life, but they really have a huge impact too in the workplace. Because you, if you know, you just compare that example you gave and you could apply it in the workplace and the outcomes are so much better for relationships, right?
For productivity, for performance, for engagement, for retention. And then all of these things add up at the end of the day for better financial results for the organization, right? And better results for teams.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah, I think it's, you know, I think of so many examples and even throughout LinkedIn is, I was reading a thread recently about somebody kind of complaining about why their team doesn't turn on their cameras. My team needs to turn on the cameras. I don't know why they don't do that. It's like, Okay, well if that's the, a changed behavior, now it's an opportunity to put on that coach-like leader mindset and get curious.
But often what gets in the way of that, Lisa, at least what I have heard, is, Oh man, that takes so much time. So how do we then, we know it has a financial impact and a benefit when we create those meaningful dialogue, meaningful relationships in the workplace. How do we then translate that into, Okay, well, it's worth the investment of time?
Lisa Martin: Yeah, so I think what you're asking there too is, you know, what's the time, money equation, you know, in this, as well. What we hear a lot when we start the, our program, The Coach-Like Leader experience, which is really designed to support people leaders to become everyday coaches. Is this is an objection we hear a lot, Tim, so I'm glad you're bringing it up.
It's that, you know, I'm too busy. I don't have time. Coaching takes so much time. Well, a factor in the matter if you learn the coaching skills that we teach, coaching does not have to take a lot of time. It can take 10 minutes. Sometimes people have this sense that coaching is this hour long conversation that we need to sit down and have an hour long performance conversation.
Well, yes, you can do that with your coaching skills. But the kind of coaching too that we're talking about in the workplace is the kind that you can have between leader and team member, peer to peer, and 10 minutes or less that will resolve a situation. I mean, how long did that conversation with your daughter take you?
Tim Reitsma: Oh, it was, you know, over in a couple minutes, you know, less than 10 minutes. Yeah.
Lisa Martin: Yeah, exactly. So one thing. The other thing is that it's a mindset shift, I think, for leaders to go from, 'This is taking up so much time to do this' and then 'It's just easier for me to do it', right? And that's sort of that classic case of, I won't delegate because it's easier for me to do.
You know, I don't have, I don't have the time. And we say in the Coach-Like Leader experience that 80% of the time in circumstances, you can default to the coach approach and it will save you time. And it will save you frustration and it will save you money. You know me, I love coaching. I think it is a great thing.
I think every person should have these skills in an organization, particularly people leaders, because they have the biggest impact, right? They're able to spread that across the organization. However, 20% of the time is not really for coaching. There are other skill sets that need to be used. And so when are those times primarily?
Well, the times when coaching doesn't make sense in the moment is when there's significant consequences to the organization, either financially or reputationally if something isn't dealt with immediately. And that is a time when a leader may and need to step in and take the reins because the consequences are too great.
But that doesn't mean that you cannot go back later and have a coaching conversation with the individual involved in this to work through it so that that situation doesn't arise again. Does that make sense?
Tim Reitsma: Oh, absolutely. I think of a recent podcast that I've recorded where we're talking a little bit about coaching and just touched on it briefly, where, but also as leaders, sometimes we need to be making decisions. You know, if there's a big crisis going on in the organization, people are looking to us to make decisions.
And we can then unpack how did we get in that situation? What caused that situation? If it's an individual or a team that did something, you know, completely wrong and caused some problems, you're coming in with, lack of a better phrase, just like guns blazing. You're just, you know, kinda shooting from the hip is like, Why did this happen?
And you're looking, you know, my good friend Matthew Gould would say is like, who to fault? Who are we looking to fault here? And instead, let's go. So what now? And so if we use this, that coaching mindset and practice it, but also, like you said from the beginning as a leader is about self-awareness.
I think we need that level of self-awareness in order to know how to be a good coach. Does that make sense or is that, not,
Lisa Martin: yeah, I think it's a combination. So I think when you become more coach-like as a leader, what you are doing is you're helping those that you work with that report to you, that are part of your team, become more self-aware.
Because as a coach or using coach-like behavior, you are helping people uncover what they are already know within themselves. And you know, that's the underlying philosophy of coaching is the answer resides within the person not you, right? And so when leaders start to really understand that and that coaching mindset that they answer lies within the individual and not within them.
That's a big shift in how you approach a situation. So as when you're saying, I hold my people capable of being able to do things. Now that does not mean you have to abdicate making sure that they have that capability and capacity to do the work that you're giving them. But you're holding them capable to be able to come to solutions and answers.
Right? And not presuming that they won't. Okay? And that goes a big way and we're moving and getting out of sort of what you were referring to, which was more of a blame. You know, a blame culture. And I honestly believe, and not everyone's gonna agree with me on this one. But I honestly believe when something misfires or backfires on your team as a leader, it's ultimately your fault.
There's something that you didn't do right there. There's somethingyou didn't ascertain the situation properly, you didn't communicate properly, you didn't ask enough questions, you didn't set enough clear expectations. Or you may think you have set clear expectations, but you didn't ensure there was share agreement around those expectations.
And what coaching skills do is they help facilitate that so that you can have and build more of an atmosphere of accountability within your team. Because you now have the skill set to do that in a way that really engages other people and helps them be their best. And when you help others be their best, then you bring out the best in yourself too.
Tim Reitsma: What I'm hearing there is the sense of, that sense of ownership and creating that sense of ownership within your role, but also within your team. Because I, you know, some people might not agree with you about, Hey, if something fails in the organization or within your team it's on you. I do agree with that.
I think, ultimately the leader is responsible and, you know, if something happens or bad apple on your team and does something disruptive, it's on us as leaders to know that there's a bad apple on our team and this causing some destruction. Like it's, there's no excuse in that.
Lisa Martin: Yeah. Well, you asked before, what is a leader, right?
And I said a vision and the ability to inspire people to action. That's the big picture, but some of them, and making the choice to do that. But when we make the choice to be a leader, we also make the choice to make hard decisions. You know, and that's part of what putting your hand up for when you make that choice to lead.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah, so we've spent some time talking about powerful questions. Thanks for unpacking that. It's such a useful tool and such an important tool. I studied business process of business operations and we were taught the very basic technique of Five Whys. And it's a five why to get to the root of a problem.
But if we try that with humans and even, I would say even maybe we should adapt that, that model to the Five What and, or sorry. Yeah. The five What and Hows. Man, we're gonna get to roots of issues and problems and opportunities within our people quite quickly. What I heard early on was there's the two sides.
There's the powerful questions and the mindful listening. What is mindful listening? Why don't we unpack that a little bit?
Lisa Martin: I would love to be a coach right now and say to you, Tim, what do you think mindful listening is?
Tim Reitsma: Well, you know what? My, my son, he's in grade four. He came home two days ago, a few days ago and said to me, he was telling me a story and then he paused and said, Dad, you're not actively listening to me.
And I went, so I put my phone down and went, Tell me more. And he was learning this in grade four about active listening. And a simple definition put your phone down, also meaning no distractions. Also repeating what you heard. And I've caught that a few times, Lisa, as I'm talking, you're saying, Oh, what I'm hearing is, or I've heard this. And that is being able to repeat back what you are hearing.
And he also said, you know, kind of clearing your mind so you're not jumping to a conclusion. So if you say something, and that's all I'm fixated on, I've now lost everything in between what the start of the conversation to the end of the conversation, because I just want to interject my thought into that.
So that's what my eight year old, almost nine year old son taught me this week or reminded me this week. About freeing distraction, giving full focus to an individual and into that person and saying, you know, you matter. You mean something. What you're saying is impactful and I'm gonna devote my time to you.
Lisa Martin: So there's a few things I love about your answer. The first thing is, I love that your son at nine years of age is learning about active listening. Yay. Because the earlier we learn, the better. It's going, it's going to help us too. I just generally love your kids because of the stories that you're telling me about them. They sound like, they sound really fantastic.
And the third is that love the way that you put that answer together. Because in a nutshell, that is mindful listening. The only thing that I would add what we teach in the Coach-Like Leader experience is we go a little bit deeper in that. And so when we talk about mindful listening, it quite simply what mean, we mean, and I think I'm paraphrasing what you said, Tim, is first and foremost is to be present, right?
So mindfulness is really baked on the idea of being fully present to your situation. So what being fully present means, I am really here with you right now. I'm taking in, you everything about you, what you're saying, how you're saying it, the way you're moving. If I can see you, if I can't see you, I'm listening for body language.
Because you can do that. You can do that too. And that means being able to eliminate as you said, all of your distractions. And then there's a few more tips that we give in terms of how, when you're being more coach-like how you can use active listening in a way that really supports the conversation for the coachee so they get better results. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: Yeah, I think if I asked you a question and I was watching you and you rolled your eyes at me but you know, went on with an answer, I'd be like, Okay, so something might not have landed quite right. Tell me a little bit about that. That's not what happened. If you're listening to this, Lisa, at least when I'm looking around the camera, she's not rolling her eyes at me, so that's a good sign.
But but I think it's important when we are free from that distraction. I love that. Just being present. I think, thanks for summing it up, you know, so concisely. And so we know, again, that asking powerful questions, being present, that mindful listening, just that its basics will have such an impact on our organization.
How do we get started in this?
Lisa Martin: Well, there's one thing I wanna add to that equation. So the coaching formula is powerful questions plus mindful listening that lead to results. So if you've had a conversation and you've practiced powerful questions and mindful listening, but there's been no results that have come out of that conversation for you, for you and the coachee, then you've had a lovely conversation, Tim, but you've not had a coaching conversation, from my perspective.
So what we're looking for when we're having a, we're having a coaching conversations is the powerful questions, the mindful listening, but having results at the end of the conversation. So results mean an action plan. What is the person going to do? What is the next step? Right? And so that is completion of that.
So if we really wanna have a successful coaching conversation, we need to have all three of those elements. So I, I really wanted clear that up, that a full formula for that. And you're going to need to ask me the question you asked me again, because I got sidelined into just making, having some clarification around the coaching formula. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: No, thanks for taking the time and clarifying that. Absolutely. It's, without results, then it, like you said, it's just a conversation. It's what are you going to do about that? I have just a friend this week, I was talking to him about something and he said, So what are you gonna do about that?
And I said, I don't like that question. Next question, please. And he said, Can you do X within the next four weeks? And so now it's timebound. And I squirmed and said, Well, I'm gonna give it a try. He said, Well give it a try or actually do it. And so, I couldn't get out of it. He's one of my best friends, so challenge me pretty fiercely and I appreciate that about it.
Otherwise, it's a conversation. So if somebody comes to your office or your virtual, know, office, you know, "Google Meet "or whatever and is talking about something, how do we then drive for those results? Like what is that results-oriented kind of closing question? If the coach-like leader is coaching can take five to 10 minutes, how do we then quickly unpack powerful questions, we're listening and then we need a result?
Lisa Martin: Great question. So the one example would be, what's your next step? To clarify shared agreement, like you said that I've been doing with you. What I heard you said you were gonna do was X by X, is that correct? Did I hear that right? Cause that might have come up in the conversation. The actual deliverables.
What do you believe would be potential obstacles that may get in your way of meeting your goal? So there's some examples right there that are results oriented questions to support the coachee and your understanding of what that next step is. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: I love that. What's your next step versus why do you think you wouldn't get it done? So it's kind of the same question, just repacked in a more impactful way. And so my question a little bit ago where do we start? How do we get this into our organizations? Aside from taking your program, aside from, which is, you know, we'll talk about that at the end, but we know it's, it will drive our organizations forward.
And so how do we bring change, this culture change into our organizations?
Lisa Martin: Well, I think, not to oversimplify things, but one person at a time. You know, I think part of the answer. The second part of the answer is what we started to talk about right at the outset of our conversation, is just become a little more curious.
You know, stay in a conversation a little bit longer, get out of yourself and get into wanting to know more about the other person. And the more that you learn about the other person and learning and asking and being with that person in an empathetic way, will make a huge difference. If people can just start doing that every day more, Tim, I think you and I will be well on our way to our vision of, you know, happy, healthy workplaces.
Right? Because you can imagine just how much better, a lot of the situations that we're in right now worldwide would be better if we had more curiosity and more empathy.
Tim Reitsma: Curiosity and empathy. Things we talk about, we read about, and yet we still struggle with. And getting curious in such a way that is, that's meaningful and impactful.
Asking somebody to, if you have the time and the space to tell me more, tell me a little bit about your story. Tell me what's going on. I saw a pattern happening over the last couple weeks and showing up for meetings, like, what's happening? What's going on? Versus why are you not showing up?
Lisa Martin: Yeah. I mean, it is. And I like the examples that you were giving with your kids because I think sometimes for people, it feels, if you have young people in your life, like, whether they're your own children or they're, you're connected with them in someway, that you tend to be more compassionate and patient often children sometimes. You know, Oh, and the opposite can happen too, depending on what's going on.
But by and large. But by and large, that you do. And I think being able to just slow down a little bit to be more curious about others and ultimately, I think it quite simply means, and the reason I brought up that children connection is because there's a caring component there, right?
You feel, as an adult when around someone who's younger, sort of this innate need or desire to care, right? To care for, to take care of. So I, I think that when you are in the workplace to your example, it's when you practice curiosity and empathy, you're ultimately showing care for people.
And sometimes we get so busy, I do really don't like that word, but we get so busy and distracted and we're moving so quickly from one thing to the other. We forget about, I don't think this is intentional. I think we just are rushing and we forget to stop just for a millisecond or two to be caring and show that care to other people through curiosity and empathy.
Tim Reitsma: It's always been a caution flag, not a red flag, but a caution flag when I hear an organization or hear somebody, or I read a job description that says, We're fast paced. So I always love to unpack that. Well, what does that mean? And then how does care show up for you in your workplace? I was talking with somebody today who was working for literally a fast-paced organization under immense pressure from external forces.
The organization was, and they lost sight of caring for people. And people were quitting, people were getting sick. They saw a huge uptake in people taking time off for their mental health. And yet it was, no, we're fast paced. We gotta keep going. Like, you can't keep up, you're not part of this organization.
So for somebody who is listening and it says, Hey, I work for a fast paced organization, or you know, read that in a job description. Unpack that, get curious, question it. I mean, in any interview you've got question time, question period. Put you, even put on that coach-like leader mindset and ask some powerful questions there.
But, so we've talked about powerful questions. We've talked about mindfulness and we've talked about results. What is one thing someone could do today to bring this coaching mindset into the workplace? I know we talked about curiosity and empathy and care. When somebody's listening to this and going, I'm still stuck. What next?
Lisa Martin: I'm trying to think what would be a simple action that you can take outside of the curiosity empathy. I think that it would be to believe in yourself and within yourself that the people that you work with do have their own answers. You know, coming back to that basic, underpinning of coaching philosophy, that the answer lies within the individual and to be able to support bringing those answers out through some of the methodologies that we've been talking about.
So I think if you could really go into everyday workplace situation and in your life like you've been describing, Tim, is that knowing that that answer lies within that person and doing your best to support them to self-discover it and to help them excavate, you know, those answers.
Tim Reitsma: Such a powerful way, in my opinion to wrap up that conversation or to wrap up this conversation. The answers are often within. Sometimes we need a little nudge and maybe need some influence there. But going in into our workplaces with that mindset of, you know, somebody's gonna ask me a question today. Instead of just giving an answer, let's set aside distraction. Let's ask a couple questions. I think, it doesn't need to be delayed. You don't necessarily need to go down that certification route in order to be a coach, in order to start coaching.
Lisa Martin: No, not at all. I think that this is open and available to everybody and if, as I said before, I think if everybody can do that, we're gonna see a different workplace, we're going to see a different world. And I think that's really what drives me and in listening and speaking with you, you know, you as well. Yeah.
Tim Reitsma: Absolutely.
Lisa, it's such a pleasure to get to know you a little bit and spend some time with you today. For those who are listening and are interested to learn more about The Coach-Like Leader and the coach mindset, how can people reach you? What's the best way for people to find you?
Lisa Martin: Thank you for asking. The best way to find us is at coachlikeleader.com, and we've got a great blog there. We've got lots of resources available for people and in fact, what you and I were just talking about now about powerful questions, on our blog if you go, there is a post there about powerful questions and there's a great cheat sheet that you can download that will really support you and lots of examples of powerful questions.
And then LinkedIn, you can follow me on LinkedIn. I'm there quite a bit and love to chat with people and you can DM me there as well.
Tim Reitsma: Perfect. Yeah, and we'll definitely include those links in, in the show notes. And again, Lisa, thanks for coming on and having just a very impactful conversation today.
And for those who are listening, I really hope you take this to heart and start thinking about powerful questions. Thinking about how you're showing up when you're listening and thinking about those results which are within people.
And if you like what you heard, please like and subscribe to the show.
So thanks again, Lisa, for coming on.
Lisa Martin: My pleasure. It was lovely to chat with you.