AI Is Like Fast Food for Your Brain

David Rice: You're addicted to AI and you don't even know it. Not because you use it constantly, but because it gives you relief. Relief from uncertainty, relief from the discomfort of not knowing, and relief is the key to addiction.

Today's guest is Dr. David Zierk. He's a psychologist and conflict navigation expert, and he's gonna explain what he calls Connection Deficit Disorder, borrowing from Attention Deficit Disorder. And it works like this—AI brings you knowledge. You know what to do, but you don't do what you know. The human quality, the relationship intelligence gets lost in the gap. There's a mechanism at play here. Your mind doesn't tolerate uncertainty. It creates distress. You need certainty. AI provides it instantly. As a result, you feel relief and now you're hooked because anything that removes distress has strong addiction potential.

This is negative reinforcement and it's more powerful than positive enforcement could ever be. But what's happening while you're getting those instant answers is you're becoming intellectually lazy. You're skipping the friction that produces insight because there's a difference between having access to intelligence and becoming intelligent.

When answers come instantly, you bypass part of the thinking process that actually makes you smarter. And then there's something else being eroded here. Empathy. What doctors are calls empathetic amnesia. The quickest way to deal with uncertainty is to judge. That person doesn't know what they're talking about.

Finished. No more uncertainty. But judgment is a closed mind. And a closed mind is not a learning mind. The opposite of judgment is curiosity. Compassionate curiosity is what leaders need to model. So today we're gonna cover why AI creates intellectual laziness and what connection deficit disorder really means; the addiction cycle of uncertainty, distress, certainty, relief; why 70% of interpersonal problems are unsolvable and AI can't help with any of them; the difference between AI living only in the past and humans living in the past, present, and future simultaneously; how to lead with compassionate curiosity instead of judgment; and finally, why you should start meetings telling people what you don't know.

I'm David Rice. This is People Managing People. And if you've been reaching for AI every time you feel uncertain, this conversation explains what you're actually trading away. So let's get into it.

All right. Well, David, welcome.

Dr. David Zierk: Well, thank you so much.

David Rice: Yeah, it's good to have you on the show. As we were chatting before this, you mentioned something that I've been talking about, which is the challenge of having original thought in a world where AI basically generates ideas instantly, right? So my question to you to get us going here is, do you think that we're starting to see people borrow intelligence instead of develop it?

Dr. David Zierk: Oh, that's a great question. The answer is kind of a classic yes and no. When incredible information is made available to us, it's too seductive to ignore it.

So there it is. You do a prompt. Information comes at you and you just kind of going, oh my gosh. Thank you for doing all of the hard work. I think what AI is really allowing us to do, it's kind of giving us a new launching point because now that I have this knowledge in front of me and available to me, what do I do with it?

How do I apply it? How do I put my signatures or fingerprints on that to express it? Because learning at the end of the day is all about redundancy. You learn something, you learn it again and again, just like your ABCs. And finally, you master it. And I really like the idea of AI saying, okay, why don't we start here instead of back here?

We start here and we apply it uniquely, and I think it really advances the learning process rather than being frightened by it or stalling it.

David Rice: Yeah. It almost feels like the intellectual equivalent of fast food, right? It's quick, tastes good in the moment, but you might not want to try to build muscle around it, necessarily use it for that purpose, right?

Dr. David Zierk: Well, that point I would say that I think one of the criminal things that makes AI available to us is it can really create a sluggishness. It can really make us lazy thinkers, if you will, because if AI is doing all of the hard work and we're just kind of borrowing from it in a sense, almost plagiarizing it, kind of saying, Hey, this is my original thought, when in fact it's not.

I think that's a problem and clearly it's a problem in the educational system.

David Rice: Yeah, well it is, somebody, I was at a conference recently and this guy says, you know, there's a lot of intellectual laziness going on in at all levels right now.

Dr. David Zierk: I agree with that.

David Rice: Yeah, I would agree with that too 'cause I think friction is, it's a part of thinking. And so when the answer comes instantly, you sort of skip the part that produces insight.

You know, the difference between having access to intelligence and becoming intelligent. Right. So, maybe the leadership challenge is making sure AI accelerates thinking rather than replacing it. I think that's kind of what I keep coming back to is like.

Dr. David Zierk: Yeah.

David Rice: That's really where we kind of put our emphasis.

Dr. David Zierk: I created a concept called connection deficit disorder. So you know, borrowing from like a Tension deficit disorder, a connection deficit disorder, and what that means is. Before I tell you exactly what that means, Russell Barkley is the guru in ADHD, and he has this classic line that really helps describe very clearly and rapidly what ADHD brain is all about.

And he says, I know what to do. I don't do what I know. And I totally love that phrase. Connection deficit disorder with AI involved is the same thing. AI brings us all this knowledge. I know what to do, but I don't do what I know. And that's where the human quality comes into play in terms of that intersection between what I call artificial intelligence and relationship intelligence.

David Rice: Well, you referenced Freud when we were talking before this saying that, you know, true original thought mostly shows up in poetry and it's interesting 'cause now AI is generating poems and essays and strategy decks and basically anything. Does that change how we think about creativity and originality, you think?

Dr. David Zierk: I think it should. You know, I went back to trying to get a reference. When we talked previously about that, and I mentioned Freud's insightfulness regarding creativity and his actual thought process that he shared with the world was, wherever I go, I find a poet has been there before me. What a beautiful phrase.

Right. What he's saying there is poets in terms of their processing capacity and their uniqueness with creativity in innovativeness uniqueness are yards ahead of everybody. And now here's AI doing some amazing things. So here's the little anecdote. So when I wrote my book Mind Rules, I was looking and playing around with what the cover should look like.

And I had an idea and I started playing around with it and I liked it, but one of my clients who's totally like an AI guru who said, let's see what AI has to say about it. I put in the information that I think described what mind rules should look like, and this picture popped up, this unbelievable, colorful, very attractive woman with all of this that's going on inside of her brain.

And I said, instantly when my client showed me that picture, I go, that's it, but not really. That's not right. It's like, it's approximately correct but absolutely wrong because it was too good. It was too well, it was too artificially, if you will, but it really grabbed me and I took it to a next level.

And that's what I mean about how AI, I think can really advance creativity, advance our in innovativeness and advance our intelligence.

David Rice: It's interesting 'cause you know, we're asking this question around poetry, but like a poem written by a person will carry some kind of emotional fingerprint, right?

Maybe the way that we gotta kinda adjust our thinking on creativity is not, it isn't just novelty, it's perspective and perspective is something machines just don't really have. They have patterns, but they don't have a lived experience. Maybe that's tweaking how we think about it, so.

Dr. David Zierk: Well, I mean, if you think about that, the intersection point of life.

Happens not when I'm writing a book or I'm thinking about a process. It's when I share that book with other people. So that intersubjective space between self and others, that's the magic. That's the quality of life. And when you make a really great connection, you feel alive. So you can have all the knowledge you could ever want through AI, but what do you do with it?

How do you share it and how do you make that connection? I created this like little limerick, if you will, and it goes something like this. It goes. Without connection, communication fails. Without communication, relationships fail and without relationship, personal growth and development fail. So personal growth and development, if you do reverse engineering on that, is absolutely critically dependent upon connections.

And AI can facilitate a connection. It can provide opportunities for it, but we have to execute it. We have to do it.

David Rice: So it's interesting 'cause you're talking about connection. We have more ways to connect than ever before, right? We've got these globally connected platforms, we've got tools that can almost automate the process of getting connected, right?

Constant communication. And yet many people say that they're lonelier than ever. How do you think about what's happening psychologically and how it shows up in people's behavior at work?

Dr. David Zierk: I think AI has done us a disservice in terms, I believe that it's accelerated loneliness. I think the human mind, the human spirit is fully capable of being lonely and going there, but it makes life harder than it needs to be.

And that's the reason why the magical power of connection, sharing another person's misery helps to lighten the load, if you will. So we have an interesting process here because like I said, if I'm correct on this, where AI has accelerated loneliness, it's done that through what I call pseudo connections.

So we can connect with the digital world very quickly, and we can be satisfied. We can almost become like digital junkies where all the stimulus is coming into me and I'm enjoying it and I want more and more of it, and it's really kind of giving me these dopamine hits. And I just like that. It also gives me like this drain too.

Like, oh my gosh, I've been in this doom scroll for how long at this particular time? But that's a pseudo connection. And even though you're being entertained. What you're doing is you're being a spectator, you're not being a participant of life. And I want people to really understand the huge difference.

Entertainment is wonderful and it's beautiful and it's a great distraction. 'cause we get to spectate, we get to watch under the person in a film or the people perform on the field. But participating, I believe is what life is all about. So I think this, everything we're talking about right now is really reinforcing this concept of becoming a spectator of life rather than a participant of life, which I believe full circle accelerates loneliness.

David Rice: Yeah, I would agree. It's interesting. I was sitting at a conference recently and there was like an interactive panel chat people were talking about. The way folks are choosing to use the AI and some folks are getting lost in it and other folks are like, you know, they're writing their emails with it. And this became like a big talking point.

There's a lot of people getting frustrated around, you know, they can tell that their colleague has written like an email with AI and sort of what that means and about, you know, behaviorally, like they're not invested in it or they're not taking it seriously. Things like that. And I think in a lot of workplaces.

Communication volume is going up, but depth of interaction is going down. That's kind of what I hear it. So it's like we're optimizing for information exchange, but not relationship building. And relationship building is where the value is gonna be.

Dr. David Zierk: I like that. So what I just heard is saying that the volume and the velocity of information is accelerating, and yet it's not facilitating opportunities for people to have those kinds of genuine connections.

One of the things I, when I work with clients. As I say, you know, we're here to make life a little bit easier, have you be more adaptive, dealing with all the ups and downs that are coming at you. But why? Why should we even try? What's the purpose of life? And I go, actually, one of the purposes of life is to experience intimacy, an intimate connection.

In a meaningful way with another person or people. But that intimacy, that's the prize. That's the ultimate prize for being a good person and doing it right and demonstrating integrity and on. Being respectful and responsible. But to experience that level of intimacy. And I do believe AI is saying, how do you spell intimacy?

Again, I don't get what that means. I don't get it.

David Rice: Well, we were talking before this, you used a phrase that really stuck with me. Right? It was like empathetic amnesia, which I never really hadn't heard that before. So. I'm curious, you know, like what does that look like when that's happening in the workplace?

How do people sort of forget to be empathetic? I mean, I see it in, you know, comment threads on politics, but in terms of the workplace, sort of, how do people forget to be empathetic?

Dr. David Zierk: Believe it or not, empathy takes focused effort. Some people are really good at it. They're called empaths. They just have that natural ability to connect with others, and sometimes they're more connected with others than with themselves.

It's a real blessing and a burden to be an empath, and it's a small minority of people, but then there's other people who have our capacity for empathy in real time when it's really needed. But that takes effort. Sometimes we miss the point, we miss the timing of it, and so we don't respond empathically in real time when it's really needed.

And that's what I call apathic moment. Oh, I missed it. I come back 24 hours later, Hey dude, I'm sorry that I didn't say anything kind because your mother just passed, and you're kind of going, dude, a little too late. A little too late. That. Anyway, that's a empathic moment. And then there's other things on this spectrum that I'm creating from empath to empathy, to dis empathy.

Then there's apathy, and what's really interesting is I really do believe, and I'd love to have lots more conversations about this with people, I think AI is apathetic. It doesn't have the capacity for empathy. That's one of the things that's very unique. I also think it lacks the capacity for insight, so to be human beings.

When I work with people, again, I say, we're not gonna get into skill development. We're not gonna get into creating critical insights about all of this, and we're not going to work on your motivation. You can go to seminars for that. What we need to work on is on this X axes is your capacity for insight and empathy, and that's where human intelligence really gain.

That's our superpower. That's our superpower insight. My being aware of how my talk with you, David, is going, is it flowing? Is it mutually beneficial? And then empathy, kinda going, slowing it down and kinda going, gosh, I wanna hear what David has to say. So tuning into another person's inner world.

AI, well, we're yards ahead of the AI on that one right now, so that's good.

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Well, you know, the phrase stuck with me, I think, because it implies that empathy isn't gone, it's forgotten. And I started to think about like, why is that? And I think maybe part of it is speed. Like when everything is moving really fast, empathy feels like, it's like, it's almost like a luxury really. You know?

Like I wonder if like the fastest interpretation of somebody's behavior is usually the least charitable one. But. Do you feel like that at times? Or is like, how would you kind of explain that?

Dr. David Zierk: If you think about what's going on around us locally, regionally, nationally, and even globally, we're overwhelmed, we're distracted.

We're kind of emotionally exhausted by so many things that are coming at us, and we're seemingly to require empathy. So I, that's where that empathic amnesia comes into play. It's not that I have a deficit. I just don't have the energy anymore to tap into empathy. It makes us inward. It increases, enhances self involvement.

So rather than being self-aware and then moving in directions of mutuality, I withdraw. And I forget that this is a moment where empathy is really needed. I really do think we've become kind of callous to it all. Like, oh, another school shooting. Oh, another mass genocide. Oh another, whatever it is. So we get all these pops of really devastating news.

It's so thematically joined. We don't have the capacity to empathize with all of that. It would become a full-time job.

David Rice: It's interesting too, 'cause I think, like you mentioned, the self involvement increases and I think when leaders lose empathy, sort of the whole system becomes more defensive and that there's a lot of like, this is how you get into like a lot of micromanagement and sort of just like injecting your, especially in like the startup world, we see this a lot where.

Leaders struggle to separate and delegate. And I think that right now there's, that's part of it is like they're struggling to empathize with what people are feeling about this experience of AI becoming so ingrained in what we're doing.

Dr. David Zierk: When I work with executives and I do some executive coaching, I say, you know, when it comes to your vertical knowledge in terms of your industry, you're gonna know a hundred times more than anything that I could know or even would be interested in knowing.

We're not gonna tap into that. We're gonna tap into my area of expertise. And how am I'm gonna help you is I'm gonna treat you like a third grader because a third grader who's in trouble, in order to get a third grader to sleep well at night, they need, want, desire, and deserve two things. Number one, do you get me?

And number two, do I matter? And there it is. There is the human equation boiled down into the smallest little nutshell, if you will. And I have to remind executives that's what it's all about. To leave your corporate office to go out on the floor and give people the experience of, I get you and I'm going to remind you that you matter, especially when you don't think that you do.

And so it seems so simple when we start saying, how do I teach empathy? But first off, you have to understand when empathy is really needed, and then you have to style it like a stylistic quality. Like I don't want you just to script it. I can hand out a whole list of things for people. If it doesn't come from a place of genuineness, authenticity, and it doesn't feel organic, it's not empathy.

David Rice: And people won't respond to it. This is the biggest thing.

Dr. David Zierk: No, they won't.

David Rice: AI can generate convincing answers incredibly quickly, but when we were chatting before this, you brought up something I think is important, which is that people start trusting those answers way too easily. What does healthy skepticism look like in an AI assisted world, and how do we help people develop that so that they can put their own fingerprints on all of these outputs that they're generating?

Dr. David Zierk: You know, a skeptical mind is a healthy mind. It's a scientific mind. It's a person who says, that sounds really good. Let's prove it. Let's see if there's veracity to that. Let me see if there's more to be found. AI gives you so much information that has what's called strong face validity on its face.

It feels completely true. I'll go further. When you get information from AI, it feels absolutely true, as if there's an absolute truth. There isn't an absolute truth. All truth is relative, but the way AI gives it to us, we go, I can't do any better. That is perfect. No, it's not perfect. It's aversion through kind of an algorithmic intelligence that's been derived based on those massive data sets.

That's cool. That's really cool. But now what are you gonna do with this? So in neuropsychology, we have these two different forms of intelligences that we test for. One's called crystallized intelligence, and that's what, do you know, what are you hanging onto? Who was the president of the United States at the time of the Civil War?

If you can draw that up. You have intact crystallized intelligence. Congratulations. If you can subtract a certain number from a certain number, you have another executive skill. Crystallized intelligence is really important and AI gives us gobs of it more than we even know what to do with it. That's a crystallized intelligence.

But the other form of intelligence is called fluid intelligence. Fluid intelligence is processing speed. It's working memory. It's taking this knowledge that we have and making it actionable, and that's what AI can't do. Like I could have a script right in front of me that tells me what to say to David during this dialogue, and it probably would sound something like this.

Now I'm being overly robotic, of course. Or I could have just kind of a wealth of knowledge within me based on my lived experiences and my natural style and talent, and I could trust my crystallized intelligence that may be enhanced by AI and bring my crystallized intelligence to a new level. But now that I've leveled up, let's say, with AI assistance based also with my training and all that, now what do I do with it?

How do I perform? How do I put it into motion? How do I create fluidity? To this process. So AI invites us to the show, but you have to step on stage and perform.

David Rice: You know, it's interesting too 'cause I, I think one of the things people really respond to with it is the fact that it can sound so confident, right?

It sounds very confident even when it's wrong. And I think about across industry, all walks of life, right? Like every pick anything. Where there's a leader and people respond to confidence. It's one of the things that they'll follow. Like somebody here said was saying like a a confident idiot, never blunders alone.

You know, so it's like, and people confuse fluency with accuracy. Right. So, yeah. I'm wondering, is that like a, one of the big leadership skills of the future is that healthy skepticism, you know, not rejecting AI, but being able to interrogate it and treat it. More like a really smart intern than some kind of oracle that's giving you all the answers.

Dr. David Zierk: That's really good. I like that. Or maybe like an angel whispering in your ear. I like that. But as the angel's whispering in your ear, you have to process it. You have to filter it. And again, what are you gonna do with all of that? What I wrote down is two words, influencer marketplace. So as you were talking, I thought exactly what David just said.

Explains the marketplace for influencers, 'cause an influencer, whatever your area of expertise is, you speak about it with such confidence and exuberance and joy. Everyone goes, I wanna be like that person. So now all of a sudden, that person, which is an illusion by the way, that person is not that person every single day in that same way they're performing, they're absolutely performing.

We're drawn to entertainment. So there's this phenomenon of this influencer marketplace that's always being kind of given to us, gift wrapped through confidence that you're talking about, which I think is an illusion. I think it's a mirage.

David Rice: Absolutely. So you work with people and we're facing what you kind of called like unsolvable problems, right?

And, but we're in this world where AI promises answers to almost everything. I guess what I'm curious about, do you worry that people are becoming. Less comfortable sitting with uncertainty, like what happens to decision making when leaders feel pressure to produce an answer? Because there's so much of this, like in confident information out there.

Dr. David Zierk: The mind doesn't tolerate uncertainty.

It doesn't. It needs that closure, so we go seek it as quickly as possible. So uncertainty creates a sense of internalized distress. I'm upset, I'm distressed. I'm out of order. I'm off balance. And then I need, want, desire, and deserve certainty. And when I do gain certainty, let's say through AI, it gives me relief.

Now all of a sudden, we're in trouble. 'cause this is what I call the mind cycle. I'm uncertain. I'm distressed. I need certainty, and I feel relief. So whatever gave me relief, in this case, AI, it's certainty and decrease my stress. Anything that gives you relief is key to an addiction. So relief is by definition what's called a negative reinforcer.

Something that something's taken away and it increases the probability of the behavior. So a positive reinforcer is something that is given to you, and it increases the probability. So, David, you're doing a good job. Here's an m and m. That's a positive reinforcement, a negative reinforcement. I'm gonna take something away from you, David.

I'm gonna take your distress away from you. You're gonna feel relief, and now you're gonna become addicted to me. We're gonna fall in love and live happily ever after. That's negative reinforcement and negative reinforcement is much more powerful and influential than positive reinforcement, and it certainly beats the pants off of punishment.

So anything that gives you relief has a strong addiction potential. I think people need to know about that, and that's the reason why exactly what we're talking about. I think people are becoming addicted to AI and the information that's born from that mega process.

David Rice: Oh, absolutely. I would agree with that.

I think like that you used the word relief, right? Because I think leadership's always involved uncertainty, but now this sort of expectation for instant answers, it feels higher and there's a level of discomfort with saying, well, I don't know yet. And sort of being really transparent about that.

So it is providing a relief to that anxiety that comes along with that. Because I think historically if we look at the most thoughtful decisions that came from people, it's comes from people that are willing to sit with ambiguity firm at least a moment, right? And I think that AI might accelerate an answer for you, but wisdom that still takes time.

That's like a, something that you cook essentially.

Dr. David Zierk: Great expression. You know, we used to call it contemplation, call it deep thought. It's the idea of just having a pause and going into a reflective mode. What's so fascinating about that is you have to have confidence in your ability to generate, and if something else is generating for you, AI is generating, why do you have to go into your own generative process?

You don't. The quickest way to deal with uncertainty, and this is really critical for the civilization to know. The quickest way to deal with uncertainty is to judge that person doesn't know what they're talking about, finished it. I have no uncertainty anymore. I judge what's problem with judgment is that it's a closed mind, and a closed mind is not a learning mind.

So the opposite of judgment is curiosity. Curiosity is an open mind. What else don't I know? That's really great. Thank you AI for giving me everything I wanted and more. Now, what do I do with this? What else do I need to know? How can I stylistically move this information forward and have it be helpful, not just the self, but solve in others? That is the human process.

David Rice: This has been fascinating. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask you one last question, and it goes back to that disconnection that we were talking about earlier. If AI and technology are accelerating disconnection, what do leaders need to do to kind of inspire reconnection?

Is it awareness? Is it empathy? Do we just need to slow down? Is how do we kind of inspire that, that level of reconnection that we'd like to see in people?

Dr. David Zierk: I think all of those are amazingly great answers. But AI is really good at solvable problems, and we mentioned very briefly that I believe the key of true human intelligence is dealing with the unsolvable problems.

John Gottman, world class researcher and marital therapist, along with his wife, said 69% of all interpersonal problems are unsolvable. So 70% were round up, 70% were unsolvable. That means that 70% of all these interpersonal problems, AI can't help us. Oh, we're in trouble, aren't we? No. Unsolvable problems means that's what I informed people.

The past is always the problem. Always. And what's interesting about the past is that's where AI lives, but we don't have to live in the past. AI only knows what it knows from the past. Its large database and it brings forward. But we as human beings, we live in the past remote and distant. We live in the present and we also live in the future, and AI doesn't and never has lived in the future.

In fact, it doesn't even care what information it's bringing forward to the person and what the consequences are. Human beings live in the past, the present, and the future Simultaneously, take your pick. What we're talking about is teaching leaders to be more present, being more present, but doing it with intentionality.

Doing it with curiosity and always having flexibility, having options 'cause what works for one person or one team may not work for other individuals or teams. So you have to have flexibility. But before you execute any kind of flexible operational plan, go back to being intentional, intentionally connect with people, be insightful, be empathic.

Be curious about another person's world. That by itself. I mean, you said self-awareness, you said a other couple things. Empathy, but for me, really, if I had to boil it all down, it's really facilitating people's ability to be more intentionally curious and what I call compassionately curious, compassionate curiosity, I believe is the antidote to what we talked about earlier, and that's that empathic amnesia.

David Rice: I love that. You know, like, because I always think, you know, leaders. We set the emotional temperature of the room, right, what you just said there about curiosity, like if a leader shows curiosity, other people are gonna mirror it. And so as we get more technology into the workplace, we just have to be more intentional about the human side and put out what we'd like to get back.

So it's got, we gotta bring that curiosity and that empathy and compassion and all of it.

Dr. David Zierk: I gave a talk recently and I started off with something like this. Thank you very much for the invite. It's a pleasure to be up here. I'm gonna start off by telling you what I don't know about the subject. I wanted people to feel the genuineness around that, but also feel that I'm not a know-it-all.

And even AI is not a know-it-all, even though it knows it all. You know, from a technical perspective, you know, not theoretical. It is literally, it knows it all, but nobody likes a know it all. I mean, just think about that. Nobody likes, at least I don't, but nobody likes a know it all. It's Offput. So you kind of come back down to this human connection saying, lemme tell you what I don't know about this subject, and I wish I did.

Then I'm gonna tell you what I do know, and we're gonna put our minds together and see if we can move the ball forward.

David Rice: Well, David, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast to chat about this stuff. I love it.

Dr. David Zierk: This has been great.

David Rice: Listeners, until next time. Be sure to head on over to peoplemanagingpeople.com/subscribe. Get signed up for the newsletter if you haven't already, you get more episodes of the podcast, all the latest content that we're creating, a lot of cool updates every twice a week, every Tuesday and Thursday. So get signed up for that.

And until next time, it's time to set the emotional temperature in the room.