How To Grow Fast In A Sustainable Way (with Manuj Aggarwal from TetraNoodle)

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Tim Reitsma What does it take to grow your business in a fast and sustainable way? Is there a magic formula that you follow? How do you know that it'll help you grow? Well, my conversation today with Manuj Aggarwal, we'll talk through three elements on how to grow your business in a fast and sustainable way, and that how this has been a winning formula for Manuj. So stay tuned. 

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Hi Manuj and welcome to the People Managing People podcast. It's such a pleasure to have you here today.

Manuj Aggarwal Thank you so much. Thanks, I'm excited. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah. You know, it's been a while since we last connected. And when we last talked, I asked you a question about what's, what keeps you up at night? And I loved your answer and your response was growing your business in a sustainable way, how to grow fast in a sustainable way.

And so I'm really curious. What prompted you to respond to that question? Or what's, what, yeah, I'm just, I'm really curious about, about that. 

Manuj Aggarwal Yeah. I you know, at the end of the day we all seek growth. We all seek hitting new targets, you know, breaking new ground and for an entrepreneur, there is obviously growth has top of mind all the time. 

Now, where growth can become problematic is sustainable growth because, you know, as humans as well we know that it takes time to learn something to, you know, to become a master at something. And no matter how much you try, you cannot give birth to a child in three months or four months.

So you have to take the time to actually fully mature the process. But once that process has matured, now you can see there are multiple options available to you. Some options can lead to hypergrowth very quickly. Some options can lead to slower, but sustainable growth. And also it depends on your own tolerance and risk level that, that you want to take. 

So, you know, one of the things that I have been fortunate to do is being involved in hundreds and hundreds of startups and looking at their journey, looking at the most successful startups, how did they grow. The startups that failed, how did they fail? And time and again, I see that a sustainable growth pattern comes into the picture. 

So, what do I mean by, like some people tend to raise a lot of money very quickly. And when that happens they tend to waste that money, waste that resource. And even though they had the backing of you know, very significant investors the startups failed.

In some other cases, some startups had absolutely no budget. They were on shoestring budget, but they focused on the most important aspects of business — customers and their satisfaction. And they made sure their employees were happy, so they grew sustainably. And that growth was such that, you know, even when they became a real company out of a startup stage, they continue to grow.

Sustainable growth to me is that is the essence of business where we can grow in a comfortable and sustainable manner. And it doesn't hit a plateau where we say, Okay, we grew so fast you know, in the first five years of our existence, but now we are just sort of cruising through and we're not making any progress. That is not sustainable growth.

Sustainable growth is where you know, you have systems in place whereas you add new clients to your client roster, you can continue to serve them at a, at the same level of quality, at the same level of satisfaction that you have been doing for the past several years. So, so sustainability is that, and then of course another aspect is outside the business.

Sustainability is a huge concern now, especially after the pandemic, you know. How do you make sure you don't you have a good impact on society, you have a good impact on community, on the environment, and things of that nature. So again, sustainability comes into the picture not only within the organization but outside the organization as well.

Tim Reitsma Yeah, I think that's such an important part. It's not just, let's just grow our bottom line. Let's just grow revenue as fast as we can. It's that sustainable and it's that looking at the bottom line and looking at the environment and all the, of the impact you can have. And so, as a founder of the, your current venture TetraNoodle Technologies, I love the name and I'd love to know the story behind that.

Boutique big data and AI consulting company. Kind of what is your philosophy behind growing your business? Is it you bring in as much cash as possible to just grow it as fast as possible? Or how are you growing your business in a sustainable way? 

Manuj Aggarwal Yeah. I see, the thing is first of all there is a lot of competition in pretty much every field out there.

So, what, the first thing you need to do is 'what is unique about you'? What is something that you do so well that nobody else can match that? That's sort of the unique selling proposition. In our case, it's the mix of psychology behavioral science, and technology. So we humanize the technology and when we do that, the results are just simply amazing.

Nobody can match it. Then the next step is being able to deliver on that promise. So, I can make a lot of claims here but the thing is when somebody comes through the door and they say, Okay, you know, I'm ready to give you a chance, show me what you can do. Now it's time to deliver. So can you deliver? Can you keep that client happy to the certain extent that client is so happy that they go turn around and refer their friends and family? 

So that I believe is the essence of business. First, you know, you define your unique selling proposition and secondly, you serve the clients, you get them the results that you have promised, and you give them outstanding service where, you know they are compelled to say, Hey, you know, I I worked with this company and I got tremendous results.

So, people, I care about, my friends, and family should also take advantage of this opportunity and work with this company.

Tim Reitsma It sounds like a, just a, such a great formula, a winning formula, right? To, to growing your business. It's and it's working for you. So, maybe tell us a little bit about your company, how it's been growing you know, share what you can and kind of what's next for you in, in, in your organization.

Manuj Aggarwal Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean you know data is the new gold. Data is the new oil. So if you have, if you understand data you can do tremendous things with it. And the evidence of that is all around us. Companies like Amazon and Google and Facebook, they utilize data. And within the span of two decades, they have become the most valuable companies on the planet.

They beat out Ford, they beat out Walmart, they beat out, you know, all these conglomerates which have been around for hundreds of years and that's because they really understand data. They understand more about us than we do. And the, and that that is the power of data which we provide to our clients, whether that's startups or a fortune 500 companies.

The idea is that not a lot of people understand what is the value that they are sitting on. They have been collecting data for, maybe it's several years or several decades, but what do they do with that data? How do they utilize it? How did they capitalize it on the value that is you know, encapsulated in that data?

That's where we come in, where we find the patterns. We say, Hey, let's look at your the buying behavior of your customers. Let's look at the demographics of your customers and it's not just simple demographics, okay? You know, let's look at the age and those things have been done, tried, and tested, but we go real deep and look at the behavior, look at the psychology of the person. 

What are they going through? See? We are living in a very dynamic environment. As the environment around us changes, as the economy around us changes, our behavior, our psychology also changes. Before 2019, before the pandemic was on the scene, the business was done very differently.

Now everybody thinks differently. So when you look at that data, you can pick up these patterns then you can say, Okay, you know, now the economy has changed, people are thinking differently. Now, let's tweak our product mix. Let's tweak our pricing. Let's tweak the offers that we are making and enhance customer satisfaction, enhance customer loyalty.

That's what it's all about — understanding your customers, understanding your employees, and when you really get into that mode then you get buy-in very quickly. You get you don't have to you know, you don't have to convince somebody of the value that you're providing. You, people, see that, you know Hey, this will be beneficial to me.

And obviously, as you do that consistently your profit margins increase, your marketing span goes down customer loyalty increases. All these are benefits, which are very human at a very human level, very satisfying, but at the same time doing this with technology can be done very quickly very consistently. Doing it through manual means is a, is an uphill battle. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah. I can see how your company really helps other organizations really in, just in line with the topic of this podcast is how to grow your business fast in a sustainable way. By looking at your data, or you can grow and say, I just need more money and you keep throwing money at a problem that doesn't solve the problem.

It's taking a look internally inside your business and saying, Okay, what data do I have? What unique selling proposition or what's my unique offering? And so it sounds like that's what your organization is able to help people unpack. 

Manuj Aggarwal Absolutely. Yeah, not only that, like, you know we, we helped with personal branding.

A lot of people need to build their brand online these days. And once again, it takes a lot of energy, a lot of time, but with AI, with automation, we are able to establish thought leaders. We are able to create influencers within months, weeks and people get a lot of traction, inbound leads, inbound interests opportunities to speak opportunities to participate in conferences.

You know, I think I shared this with you a few months ago. I got a chance to talk at a UN-related event the next to next to the secretary-general of the UN and a Nobel prize winner. So these kinds of opportunities are they don't happen, you know, every day, but once you establish a brand name it becomes easier. It becomes more real than people think it can be. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Well, I know you're absolutely right. It's that building that trusted brand. So again, you can grow fast, but if people don't trust you and you don't have authority in your space then you're kind of in trouble. You're kind of just going to flounder there. 

So, I just want to take a little shift here. And so we've been talking about, you know, kind of the, how to grow and I think I want to take a look at from the perspective of leadership. So you've had an opportunity to, you're leading in your organization in your past, you've led multiple teams.

So a question is, that I have is, what does leadership mean to you? 

Manuj Aggarwal You know, see, the thing is that leadership in my opinion is like being a GPS, being a map, being somebody who can point in the right direction and say, Okay, this is where we are going. This is the territory that we need to cross and this is a speed we can adopt. And when there are potholes, when there are roadblocks let me know. I will be there to, to help you out, roll up my sleeves and let's get this done together and let's get to the destination together. 

That is the essence of leadership in my opinion, is that, the other thing is understanding what is the overall objective?

So in the same analogy of going in a certain direction, if you're the GPS you have the GPS for the team. So you need, you have a team objective, you want to reach somewhere. Whether that's a revenue goal, whether that's you know, launching a product, whether that's launching a company, what have you? But you also have to realize each member of the team also has their own personal goals, right?

So they have their own priorities. They have their own families, they have their own you know, things that are not visible on the surface, like somebody wants a job as a project manager, because they want to pay off their debt student debt. Somebody wants a somebody wants to you know, do really well and get a promotion because they are planning to have a family next year.

These are some of the things that nobody talks about their, on their resume or on their cover letters or anything like that. But once you get to know people, once you really understand what their personal priorities are and how do you align those priorities with the overall team objectives that, that is the essence of leadership, because then you tap into, you know, once, once you align those priorities, you tap into intrinsic motivation that all of us have, right? 

So once you do that when people say, Hey, you know, this person is not only focused on, on the company objective or his own agenda, but he's trying to help me get where I want to get in my professional and personal life.

Then you don't need to push people they, they push themselves and the work environment becomes very enjoyable and collaborative and you know, there are, there is no politics involved. There is no backstabbing involved. So that's what I think about leadership. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah. That's fantastic. And I love that you brought in just those the motivators. You know, what is motivating somebody, because it really feeds into growing your business. So filling a company full of people is not necessarily going to grow your business. It's understanding what's underneath the surface. That's such an important aspect of leadership. 

Do you see that often, or do you see that there's a need for leaders to be able to sit down with their teams and really unpack what is, aside from career aspirations, but what is that motivation? Do you see that there's a need? 

Manuj Aggarwal Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, in fact, I will say a lot of the times, most, I will say 90% of the people are the companies we talk to, they are not there. They are not there. They don't even know anything about their employees other than what is on the resume. They don't know who is in their family.

They don't know what is bothering them. They don't know anything about, about their team members. And in many cases that, you know, that is what's causing a disengagement. That's what's causing productivity loss you know, productivity losses, or lack of engagement account for what about $8 trillion loss around the globe yearly.

And exactly. And it has become worse because now we are not even working face-to-face anymore. In many cases, we are working hybrid or remote. So a lot of actually companies come to us just to get advice on how to re-engage their employees and we work on the psychological level, you know, just like I explained. We bring in that human factor, which in turn brings in that engagement back. 

Tim Reitsma To bring in the human factor, it's just, often I've seen in back in my consulting days has just lost. It's it like you said, it's, you know what's on somebody's resume, you know what their goals are. And then, you know, I can just imagine a founder or a leadership team wondering why the company's not growing.

Why is it not growing in the way that they need? So, so it sounds like, you know, from what I'm hearing is not just about the product, about the unique aspect of what you're offering the market, but it's also looking internally. If you want to grow your business, you have to be looking internally.

Manuj Aggarwal Absolutely. There is no, there is absolutely no point to look externally unless you clean your own house. There is no point. You'll be just pushing harder, you'll be spending more, you'll be getting more frustrated. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah. And so I'm curious, have you what do you do as a leader? How do you you know, thinking about your business and wanting to ensure that it's growing in a sustainable way and it's growing fast kind of walk us through Manuj, like, what is your day to day or your week to week with your leadership team?

Manuj Aggarwal Sure, sure. So, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, it all starts with a vision on where do you want to be. Where do you want to go? And then that is a high-level vision. And in some cases, very, not very clear. Okay, you know, we want to sign up you know, a hundred clients by the end of the year.

So let's say that's the vision. And then you sort of break it down on monthly basis until, Okay, what can we do this month to achieve some of that vision maybe totally unrealistic, maybe too much or too little. I have no idea, but that's the vision. Let's figure it out what we can do to, you know, solidify that this month and then come up with a certain project that we can accomplish in that month.

Then making sure that we have the resources to execute that plan and many cases, what we do is we look at the team and we look at the resources, and many times we have to say no to many projects and say, Okay, we don't have the team. We don't have the time. So let's clean that off and let's come up with a plan that we can realistically execute.

There is no point in, you know, making castles in the air, especially at the tactical level. With the vision, long-term vision, yeah, you can make castles in the air. That's not a problem, but with the tactical part you cannot, there is no point. So once you break it down, then basically I sit down with my team every day.

There's a meeting one-hour standup meeting where we talk about what, I mean, three questions we ask. What happened yesterday? What are you planning to do today? Do you have any questions where I, where myself, or the team can help you accomplish your goals? Right? And after that, I just let them do their thing because my team is spread across four continents.

So even from the timezone perspective, I cannot be looking at them plus people, as I said earlier, once, once we tap into that intrinsic motivation, you need to give autonomy to people. Otherwise again, if you're micromanaging them, there is that intrinsic motivation is going to get killed.

So you let them know, Okay, these are the objectives. This is the plan. This is why we are doing it. That is another important thing. A lot of leaders miss that part, which is explain why the hell are we doing this? You know, what is objective? Where are we going? You know, I can tell somebody, okay, you know, we're going to do like a 10 social posts. 

We're going to do a hundred client calls. We're going to do all these things, to what end? Like what is the objective? Okay. Then you need to explain, okay, if we do 10 10 social posts on average, we are getting these many views on average, this, it leads to this many leads and those leads will convert, you know, buy conversion data will convert to this many customers.

And when we convert that revenue, this is what will happen to the company. And when the company does that, coming back to your intrinsic motivation, how will it affect your lives? Makes sense? So now that, that 10 posts are directly tied to their intrinsic motivation of raising a family next year, their intrinsic motivation of paying off that mortgage next year, whatever that is, right? 

And so now they know, okay, this is important. This is why right? And then let them do the work and then hold them accountable next day that, Hey, you said this was going to happen. What happened? Let's look at the data and not in a way of accusation, not in a way of being a big brother, but okay, let's see what we were able to achieve. 

This is awesome that we were able to achieve this, but what about this which we were not able to achieve? What can I do? What can the team do to get us closer to that goal? Maybe we were not realistic in this. Maybe we didn't anticipate the challenges that we had, but if you are sincere if the team member is sincere enough and they can demonstrate, they put in a their sincerest effort, and we have not able to achieve that goal.

You should have that trust in the team member that, okay, you know, there is some gap here. We need to fill that gap, whether that's communication, whether that's knowledge, whether that's tools, whatever that gap is, let's fill it. But then on the other side, you also have to take them, make them accountable that if they consistently miss their targets, then you need to have a conversation.

Okay, you know, is there something bigger going on behind the scenes? If there, you know, there's like, like in some cases, life events are happening in their life, which we are not privy to, or, you know, something going on. But at the end of the day, if they are consistently not delivering, then you need to replace the team members.

So that's the process that I go through. And starting from multimillion-dollar projects or small projects, it works consistently. Whether that's a global large team, whether that's a very small team, at the end of the day, you need to give autonomy to people. You need to tell them, this is why we are doing it. This is what you need to do. Give them the tools, give them the knowledge and then let them do their thing. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah, providing that clarity, right? You know, so if I say to a team member, say to somebody in my life, like, and I can't think of a good example, but okay, go plan an event and that's it. I don't provide any guidance on what's the events about, what's the title or what's the outcome.

What's the goal. It's not going to be a great event, but actually, as a leader, we sit down and need to set, you know, the strategy, you know, why are we doing this? What's the purpose? What's the point? And then allowing people to be autonomous and drive the results. 

Yeah. And so it sounds like that's been a winning formula for you.

Manuj Aggarwal Yeah. I mean, you know, and then the other thing is like, you gotta do, you gotta do what you love doing. And then that, that becomes such a easy way to make a living and live life that even when there are downturns, you're doing what you love anyways. So, so it's all good.

And the people around you are supporting you because they know that you are working in their favor. And so it's just a wonderful way to do business. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah, no, no, it sounds, it sounds like it. So if anybody's listening or if people are listening today and thinking about, okay, how can I grow my business in a fast, sustainable way? Sure, you can go and raise money. That's one way of doing it. And or let it grow organically. 

And I think it's defining what that fast means because I worked at a company that, you know, it was part of our purpose was to be one of the best. Not the best, but just one of the best. And it was slow and steady and the founders loved it.

They just, that was how they wanted to run their business. I've also worked at companies where it was, we got to take it in as much money as possible so we can develop a product and grow and then we'll run out and we'll raise more. And it's all about raising more and more and more. 

Manuj Aggarwal I mean, yeah. Everybody has their own way. There's no right or wrong but yeah, whatever works for each person. 

Tim Reitsma Yeah. And I think it's you touched on something that's really important. It's not just thinking about growing the product, but growing from a leadership perspective and growing the team, because they're effectively the ones who are going to be driving the business forward.

And so if somebody is listening and going, okay, so this is great. How do I do this? How do I, you know, I need to grow my business. I have people that rely on me. What do I do? Where do I start? How do I, you know, is it defining what fast is? Is it defining the goals? We've got a product. So, you know, what's that one piece of advice that you can provide?

Manuj Aggarwal Well, I mean, you know, I wish there was an answer to that. You know if.. 

Tim Reitsma I know, right? It's like shake the, you the, you know, it's like looking the try to get like, you know, that wishlist or that magic answer out of that eight ball. 

Manuj Aggarwal The magic answer is this, right? Like there is no, no one single situation that is similar to another. So everybody is doing their own thing. They are in their own sort of niche. They are serving a different set of clients. They're trying to solve a different type of problem. So it all starts with that under you know, analyzing what is it that they're trying to do? What does the market demand? What what are they good at?

And then trying to sort out, what are the roadblocks, as I said earlier, what are the potholes? Because once you go through enough of these scenarios, you can spot them. And that's what we do for our clients. We say, okay, it seems like your messaging is not correct. It seems like the, and in some cases, you know, once you understand human psychology, once you understand behavioral science, there are things which will surprise you.

Even the color of the packaging can make a huge difference. Even the font on the webpage can make a huge difference. So it's not just about raising money or launching new products. It's about really understanding what is the customer going through. The growth will only happen through one means if you have more customers. There is no other way unless you're buying your own product.

So, so, so the idea is you need to understand your customers and there are multiple ways to do that. And once you really get down into that, you have the resonance that you have the clarity then it's just optimizing, making sure you provide that value, making sure more people know about you.

It's a noisy world out there. So, so it's not the best product that wins in this marketplace, it's the best-known product that then. So you need to strategize how to cut through the noise, how to get your message, how to grab the attention of your customer. Not only grab their attention but when they are distracted, which we all are through, you know, through all the media that is being thrown at us every day.

How do you make yourself memorable that, okay, maybe, you know, my customer is sitting in the commute and they just sort of browsing their mobile phones? And they just had a glance of what we have to offer, but then, or they listened to a five-second clip of this podcast and then they forget about it.

But then how do you make it memorable, such that when they are off their commute when they are in their office and then that pressing need strikes them that, Hey, you know, I need a solution to this problem. Oh, I remember that person was talking about this. Let me find out how I can reach them. How do you make that memorable?

Those are some of the things you need to think about, and this has nothing to do with you and nothing to do with your business. It's all to do with your target audience, right? 

Tim Reitsma Yeah, you can make the best widget in the world, but unless you have somebody to buy it it's just still going to be the best widget in the world to you as the developer.

And so, yeah. You know, I think that's so vital and so key. It's not just, again, it's not just thinking about the product. It's not just thinking about how good it is. It's not just thinking about it internally, but thinking about that customer. And as a leader in organization, you need to think about everything. You need to think about it all. 

Yeah. And so, you know, I'm really curious about the name of your organization, the name of your company. So maybe you spend a minute and just tell us about TetraNoodle and just the name behind it. I'd love to know. 

Manuj Aggarwal Since you are in Vancouver it'll be easy for me to explain to you.

There's a restaurant chain called Noodlebox here in Vancouver. And, you know, I had a client and I made friends with that client and a few other people and we used to go to Noodlebox, like all the time when I used to visit. And when I was rebranding, I was like, Man I'm not a marketing guy.

I don't know what to call it. And then I was just sitting around with my friends over there and then said, Hey, what do you think about Noodlebox? That's a good name. And I was just joking, I was like, you know, they're going to laugh at me. And he goes, no, that, that has a bell rings. Like, you know, that has a tone to it.

Like, really? And they say yeah, go ahead. And then, so, you know, rather than saying, we'll walk like, I just took the box, the four corners of the, you know, the Chinese sort of takeout box and then call it Tetra. So that's the sort of rang. 

Tim Reitsma Ah, I love it. See, it's memorable. It's it prompts people to, to think about, okay, well, what is this brand all about?

And so, so thanks for, yeah, I kinda threw that one at you, but I appreciate you, you telling us about it. And for those who are listening and interested in knowing how to leverage your data, how to grow your business, how to look internally to motivate your team, head over to tetranoodle.com and or, you know, take a look at the show notes and we'll definitely put your contact information in there Manuj and the company name.

And so, yeah, I thank you so much for sharing some nuggets of wisdom with us today. And it's been I've really enjoyed the conversation. Though we hopped around a little bit, but but there's definitely some big takeaways, including, you know, you got to have a good product in order to grow.

And then we spent some time on leadership. Like that's such an important aspect, you know. If nobody wants to work with you or for you, you've got a problem. And so you've got to, you've got to correct that and then looking at your customer. So, yeah. There's your three aspects of growth. So thanks again, Manuj for coming on.

Manuj Aggarwal Thank you so much. Thanks. 

Tim Reitsma It was so good to hear from Manuj today on the People Managing People podcast. If you liked what you heard, please head over to our website peoplemanagingpeople.com. Check out the podcast, check out the show notes. We've got links to Manuj's company as well as his LinkedIn if you do have further questions for him. Also subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcasting platform and check us out on social media.

Hope you have a great day.